combustion chamber grooving

I think Bruce just posted abou this guy's work:

http://somender-singh.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

Someone posted about it a few months back, and I looked at
it then... It sure looks like snake oil, but there's a lot
of people who claim to be using it with excellent results,
and the described physics is NOT insane.

But I can't find a single photo! I'm not clear from the
descriptions just what this grooving looks like, how critical
dimensions are, or anything of a practical nature. I can
understand if it's subtle and complicated, but there's got to
be SOME rule of thumb here....

Anyone got photos of grooved iron similar to ours?

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combustion chamber grooving

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, Tom Jennings wrote:

> Anyone got photos of grooved iron similar to ours?

Aargh, I swear those links weren't there before... :-)

But why does it look like it will lead more to head cracks than
performance increase?

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combustion chamber grooving

Hi Tom,
I've been chatting with a guy on the Speed Talk forums that has been running racing engines with the Grooves for quite a while. He says that 10:1 works quite well with 87-octane and has built 12.5:1 with 92 octane. Yesterday I asked him about E85 and grooves, but E85 isn't available in his area ... he did say they have run AV fuel with 14.5:1 compresson engines and grooves. I sent him an AMC head chamber pic and he marked it up ... here is a link to it: http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/Jeep%20Heads/?action=view&current=AMCHeadGroove.jpg

Here are Randy's comments on the groove location/position :

"Hi Greg,
I marked up a picture with a suggested groove location. Normally I mark the line right between the valves, the opposite end at the gasket area will determine groove direction. I aim the groove just to the exhaust side of the spark plug.

Nothing scientific about this, I believe the flame will develop here first because of swirl (if any exist) and the heat from the hottest area in the chamber.

I cut the groove 0.060' - 0.080' deep with a 1/16' ball end mill. I then widen and deepen the outlet at the chamber to 0.125'. When you cut the groove you will end up with two sharp points at the chamber. Cut these back some or they will get too hot.

Hope tis helps.

RJN"

As for other links for the head grooves, here they are :

www.somender-singh.com (guy who started it all ... Popular Mechanics did an article on him)

http://somender-singh.com/content/view/119/49/ - GROOVE PICS

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4069 - Where I met Randy, the head guy who's been doing this ALOT ... ID is 'automotivebreath' *** PICS SHOWN ***

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=66779 - Another Forum for Turbo Volvos that Randy referred me to. *** PICS SHOWN ***

As for the depth on the AMC heads, the groove will be mild compared to other marks, due to our chamber floor angle design, opposite the spark plug.

Sincerely,
Greg Taylor :) <><

Tom Jennings wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, Tom Jennings wrote:

> Anyone got photos of grooved iron similar to ours?

Aargh, I swear those links weren't there before... :-)

But why does it look like it will lead more to head cracks than
performance increase?

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combustion chamber grooving

I have been following this also. HOw do they keep the headgaskets from blowing?
Davis

Tom Jennings wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, Tom Jennings wrote:

> Anyone got photos of grooved iron similar to ours?

Aargh, I swear those links weren't there before... :-)

But why does it look like it will lead more to head cracks than
performance increase?

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combustion chamber grooving

Thanks for the links. I will have to come back and read up when I have more time.
Where did you get the Fisher damper for amc v-8?
Davis

Greg Taylor wrote:
Hi Tom,
I've been chatting with a guy on the Speed Talk forums that has been running racing engines with the Grooves for quite a while. He says that 10:1 works quite well with 87-octane and has built 12.5:1 with 92 octane. Yesterday I asked him about E85 and grooves, but E85 isn't available in his area ... he did say they have run AV fuel with 14.5:1 compresson engines and grooves. I sent him an AMC head chamber pic and he marked it up ... here is a link to it: http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg116/amundaza/Jeep%20Heads/?action=view¤t=AMCHeadGroove.jpg

Here are Randy's comments on the groove location/position :

"Hi Greg,
I marked up a picture with a suggested groove location. Normally I mark the line right between the valves, the opposite end at the gasket area will determine groove direction. I aim the groove just to the exhaust side of the spark plug.

Nothing scientific about this, I believe the flame will develop here first because of swirl (if any exist) and the heat from the hottest area in the chamber.

I cut the groove 0.060' - 0.080' deep with a 1/16' ball end mill. I then widen and deepen the outlet at the chamber to 0.125'. When you cut the groove you will end up with two sharp points at the chamber. Cut these back some or they will get too hot.

Hope tis helps.

RJN"

As for other links for the head grooves, here they are :

www.somender-singh.com (guy who started it all ... Popular Mechanics did an article on him)

http://somender-singh.com/content/view/119/49/ - GROOVE PICS

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4069 - Where I met Randy, the head guy who's been doing this ALOT ... ID is 'automotivebreath' *** PICS SHOWN ***

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=66779 - Another Forum for Turbo Volvos that Randy referred me to. *** PICS SHOWN ***

As for the depth on the AMC heads, the groove will be mild compared to other marks, due to our chamber floor angle design, opposite the spark plug.

Sincerely,
Greg Taylor :) <><

Tom Jennings wrote:
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, Tom Jennings wrote:

> Anyone got photos of grooved iron similar to ours?

Aargh, I swear those links weren't there before... :-)

But why does it look like it will lead more to head cracks than
performance increase?

_______________________________________________
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http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list

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combustion chamber grooving & Fisher Balancer

Hi Davis,
Hope you enjoy the reading. I would assume anyone running that high of compression is running O-rings, but I'll ask. I already have my block O-ringed for turbo use (not doing that now).

As for the Fisher balancer, I bought it from Garrett Ghezzi years back. Just sold it to another AMCer on the List. Aluminum underdrive pulley is still available, thought.

Greg :) <><

Davis Martin wrote:
Thanks for the links. I will have to come back and read up when I have more time.
Where did you get the Fisher damper for amc v-8?
Davis

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combustion chamber grooving

I first heard about grooving some years ago but have
never tried it. The builders around here have mixed
opinions. What is the opinion of independent head guys
like Edelbrock and Indy. It seems that if grooving is
that beneficial then they would include it on their
heads. Anyone have their ear?
Also, wouldn't this be a good tech tip for CC to run
dyno tests on, they must have a pile of SBC heads
lieing around that they can cobble together. Anyone
have their ears too?
Remember Pink Floyds song "Several Small Species of
Animal Alone in a Cave a Grooving with a Pict", maybe
they were ahead of the game....Russ

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combustion chamber grooving

Speaking of balancers, I found some SFI rated (and some lesser) dampers in the 2008 NAPA performance book.

Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10
From: Davis Martin
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] combustion chamber grooving
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans."
Message-ID: <682942.93638.qm@web81407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks for the links. I will have to come back and read up when I have more time.
Where did you get the Fisher damper for amc v-8?
Davis

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