I've read your mod on the ARP head bolts. I'm currently rehabing a '62 Classic S.W. and have the mtr apart and want to do what ever it takes to keep this mtr together. My motor has the Power Pac option and I've reground the cam. Do you have the part #'s for the ARP head bolts and a phone # and contact person? All of my friends think I'm NUTS for building this car but it takes the right kind of person to Own and Drive a RAMBLER. Anyone can drive a Ferd or Chebby. Thanks for any help you can give.

>> it takes the right kind of person to Own and Drive a RAMBLER. Anyone can drive a Ferd or Chebby.
AMNEN ON THAT ONE!!!!

get used to the friends giving you crap. i get it from friends, family, random people at shows, you name it. im another one of the FEW people interested in these motors. im building an aluminum block 196.

im thinking ill rebuild the cast iron motor, and wrap it up in plastic. wait, on second thought, is that such a good idea? with new rings, in fresh bores, sitting for who knows how long till i need it? i have gotten these motor swaps down on these cars. WAY easy to do. the little info i have found on these aluminum engines, claims they are even worse for popping head gaskets. im siding with tom j. to do all possible for this motor. i did find some indian head head gasket sealer. will buy a couple bottles tomorrow when i go to town. i need to get a couple head gaskets for the aluminum block, and i need 2 head gaskets for the c.i. block also. i like to have atleast 1 sitting on the shelf. getting everything steel cleaned up, painted. taking the al block to the shop tomorrow. HOPEFULLY my fav shop is open tomorrow. i cant remember his hours. block is gettin hot tanked, deck surfaced, and check the bore alingment. i will take the head also, and have him make sure it is flat still. i discovered it isnt a NOS head. its an AMC remanufactured head. it had a couple cracks that wre fixed, and looks to have been surfaced. who knows how long ago, and how i was stored. arp studs, drilled t-stat, smoothed head, and some other ideas i have and going to do more checking on ideas before i post about them.

dave stohler
www.picasaweb.google.com/das24rules

Redline.
If you can get the right base and filter. I just saw a demo on power block or one of the other car shows. They dem'od blowing up filters. Theirs took way over what your little engine will ever put out!
Your smart enough not to flog it when it hasn't warmed up yet!
I suppose you'll pay out the arse for Redline filters.
But, you know what that engine cost....

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular

-----Original Message-----
From: tom jennings
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2010 19:27:15
To: AMC, Rambler, Nash, Jeep and family
Subject: [AMC-list] slow it goes

Decent Rambler day today. I got the used axle and hub, new bearing and seals
from Galvins last night. I'm driving a rental car, have to return it in the
morning so I fast-tracked today. I had to get the new bearing pressed onto
the axle, so I finished off my work on the cylinder head, brought that plus
the axle and bearing to the machine shop, they did the axle on the spot and
I took it home to finish the Classic axle repair.

I spent the last three weeks picking at the head. Polished the combustion
chambers and as much of the port runners I could reach with the "big"
Foredom at work. There's still rough stuff in there, but it's minor, and
about 10% of the surface area; it would have required removing too much
metal to get at, and improvement, not perfection, was the goal.

Except for a wee bit of metal removal around the valve guides in the pocket
floors I did all the work with abrasive rolls; I was terrified of taking off
too much metal. Man those castings are rough! Smooooth now (80 grit), lumps
gone, sharp edges radiused. I removed crude lumps of iron around the valve
guides within the pockets with a small carbide bit. I wasn't going after
FLOW, I was going after HEAT. Hell, the whole ENGINE pumps 240 cfm at 5000
rpm, each runner is 80 cfm. I did remove some hilariously bad flashing from
the intakes, and polished (80 grit again) those as well. That could be a
waste of time, but so what. Looks nice.

I drilled the water jacket for two Stewart Warner electric temperature
senders, between 3 & 4 and 4 & 5. They ought to read the same, right? We'll
see! I knew I would regret not having both holes and they're easy enough to
plug.

I also put a 3/8" NPT bung in the bottom of the thermostat housing, towards
the front. The water pump will draw head coolant from that. If it's too much
flow I can restrict it easy enough.

All new valves and springs.

Got the used axle and matching hub installed. The job was a breeze. It took
longer to get the end play right than do to the rest of the job. Lucky me, I
ended up with a lot of unused shims. I haven't shimmed an axle in more than
a decade, but I managed to not lose my extra shims in all that time! That
alone is a miracle. I Loctited the hub in lace. Wish me luck. The other side
(driver side) nut was loose! like only 10 ft-lbs tight. Damn. Gave it a good
250 - 300 ft/lbs, about three? more flats of the nut.

I doubt I will ever forget to retorque an axle again.

Now that I have the wagon again, I can pick up the motor tomorrow morning.
It sure looks pretty! The block is painted cast iron. I mean, Cast Iron
Paint -- cast-iron-colored engine paint. Sheet metal parts (timing, valve
covers, etc) are bright green, matching the interior of the car. The block
deck has a nice fine surface, and the piston tops are all polished, the
whole thing looks mirrored.

I'll eventually document the whole thing, but -- this engine has exited the
normal world of engine parts. Nearly nothing was available. No one makes
bearings for it any more. Most of my internals came from Egge, and were
EXPENSIVE. Best makes crucial gaskets, the rest is old stock.

My 1965 oil pump is no good, turns out, after a thorough cleaning. The body
is too corroded, it would leak past the gears for sure. Bummer. Have to
regroup here, and fast. The question for me is, when the temperature is
cold, say 0 degrees F, will 10w-30 be so thick that it will be hard to push
through a filter, such that the peak pressure pops the filter inner end cap?
I REALLY WANT full flow filtration!
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On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 16:18, wrote:

> Redline.
> If you can get the right base and filter. I just saw a demo on power block
> or one of the other car shows. They dem'od blowing up filters. Theirs took
> way over what your little engine will ever put out!
> Your smart enough not to flog it when it hasn't warmed up yet!
> I suppose you'll pay out the arse for Redline filters.
> But, you know what that engine cost....
>

OH MAN it costs. News at 11, but it's expensive, for me anyways. This is way
more than a "rebuilt", it's Done Right at every step, nothing cheaped out.
Nothing. I started out with zero credit card debt. Not zero now.

I have a remote filter kit from Summit, I think it takes a Ford filter, so I
should have many options. Yeah, I guess I'm going with full oil pump
pressure INTO the oil filter. I don't buy cheap filters anyways.

>From Wix:

*The Filter By-Pass Valve*
If a WIX full-flow filter becomes "clogged", or excessively restrictive to
oil flow, the filter by-pass valve ensures continued engine lubrication by
allowing the oil to by-pass the filter.

So I'm doin' my simpler filter hack. I don't think it will be a real or
chronic problem, but its nice to know that if it does go high-pressure
decent filters will deal with it. Wix is as cheeep as I get. Bypassing the
filter for seconds to a few minutes during worst-possible-case warmup is not
gonna be fatal.
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that was one of the things i was looking into further about this full flow hack for these motors. the wix filters. i wanted to look into them more, about how they are set up and all. i just has a pop off spring inside, that shoves the filter element back i think. anyway, they build up pressure, and just bypasses the filtering stuff, and goes right on by, thru the filter itself.
dave stohler
www.picasaweb.google.com/das24rules

hey fellow listers,

sounds like a ship rolling over doesn't it.........listers.......ha

Anyway, I'm working on the rebuild of a Carter AFB. I don't know it's
origins, other than is was on a 79 304 with a cast iron four barrel intake.
The engine had a mild cam too.

I think the AFB may have come from a 68 or 69 290 or 343.

Unfortunately there's no tag on the carb for identification, so it has been
rebuilt al least once.

Here are the numbers stamped on the base of the carb, passenger side in
front. 1B4 9510S

base of carb passenger side behind choke coil. cast in numbers 0 -
2916 with a big X under that

passenger side linkage that operates the secondaries but mounted on the
primary linkage shaft are numbers 139

on the drivers side of the carb in the base is cast the number 3
and a R in a circle

on the linkage mechanism for the fast idle cam on the drivers side are the
numbers 181-455

It does have the AMC throttle linkage ball for the socket on the throttle
cable.

Primary butterflys have the number

10 with a little zero after it and 2-185

secodary butterflys have the number

2-281

Any help that can indentify this carburetor or give me some clues will be
greatly apprciated.

Questions

1. The primary butterfly's shaft has some play in it. Will this cause
problems?

2. There is a 1/4" od tube for the choke pulloff, should I connect that to
the 3/8" od tube on the top of th ecarb passenger side?

3. There is a 3/8" od tube on the carb top passenger side that is for
thebowl vent, should I just leave that tube open to atmosphere or should it
be filtered or ran somewhere to prevent crap from getting in the bowl.

4. There is a 3/8" od tube at the back and front of the carb, back one is
threaded into place front is pressed in.
back one goes to PCV valve correct??
what is the front one for??
5. There are two 1/4 inch od tubes on either side of the idle mixture
screws, one goes to the vacuum advance for the distributor, does it matter
which one?
What does the other one do? get plugged off ?

6. Where should the power for the electrci choke come from?? I assume I'll
have to add that in as 70 Javelins had automatic chokes instead of electric.

My plan is to put this on the white Javelin with a performer intake under
it. I have the cam out of the 79 304, I've been thinking of putting it in
the Javelin's original 1970 304 with new lifters. What are your thoughts on
that idea?

Thanks for for your help and opinions offered.

Armand

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AFAIK
'9510S' would indicate an aftermarket 500cfm. 9000 series AFBs are aftermarket,
the '5' is for 500 cfm.

Assuming 100% VE, 500 cfm would equate to a 304 at 5684 rpm. : )

Ken

Quoting Armand Eshleman :

> hey fellow listers,
>
> sounds like a ship rolling over doesn't it.........listers.......ha
>
> Anyway, I'm working on the rebuild of a Carter AFB. I don't know it's
> origins, other than is was on a 79 304 with a cast iron four barrel intake.
> The engine had a mild cam too.
>
> I think the AFB may have come from a 68 or 69 290 or 343.
>
> Unfortunately there's no tag on the carb for identification, so it has been
> rebuilt al least once.
>
> Here are the numbers stamped on the base of the carb, passenger side in
> front. 1B4 9510S
>
> base of carb passenger side behind choke coil. cast in numbers 0 -
> 2916 with a big X under that
>
> passenger side linkage that operates the secondaries but mounted on the
> primary linkage shaft are numbers 139
>
> on the drivers side of the carb in the base is cast the number 3
> and a R in a circle
>
> on the linkage mechanism for the fast idle cam on the drivers side are the
> numbers 181-455
>
> It does have the AMC throttle linkage ball for the socket on the throttle
> cable.
>
> Primary butterflys have the number
>
> 10 with a little zero after it and 2-185
>
> secodary butterflys have the number
>
> 2-281
>
> Any help that can indentify this carburetor or give me some clues will be
> greatly apprciated.
>
> Questions
>
> 1. The primary butterfly's shaft has some play in it. Will this cause
> problems?
>
> 2. There is a 1/4" od tube for the choke pulloff, should I connect that to
> the 3/8" od tube on the top of th ecarb passenger side?
>
> 3. There is a 3/8" od tube on the carb top passenger side that is for
> thebowl vent, should I just leave that tube open to atmosphere or should it
> be filtered or ran somewhere to prevent crap from getting in the bowl.
>
> 4. There is a 3/8" od tube at the back and front of the carb, back one is
> threaded into place front is pressed in.
> back one goes to PCV valve correct??
> what is the front one for??
> 5. There are two 1/4 inch od tubes on either side of the idle mixture
> screws, one goes to the vacuum advance for the distributor, does it matter
> which one?
> What does the other one do? get plugged off ?
>
> 6. Where should the power for the electrci choke come from?? I assume I'll
> have to add that in as 70 Javelins had automatic chokes instead of electric.
>
> My plan is to put this on the white Javelin with a performer intake under
> it. I have the cam out of the 79 304, I've been thinking of putting it in
> the Javelin's original 1970 304 with new lifters. What are your thoughts on
> that idea?
>
> Thanks for for your help and opinions offered.
>
> Armand
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-list mailing list
> AMC-list at amc-list dot com
> http://list.amc-list.com/listinfo.cgi/amc-list-amc-list.com
>

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Ken,

Thanks for the response.

That certainly puts my mind at ease. I was hoping for around 500 cfm.
I'm pretty sure the 304 isn't going to be seeing much 5600 rpm runs, but I'm
thinking the primaries are a tad bit smaller than the FOMOCO 2bbl that came
stock, which may improve the fuel mileage some and still provide me with
additional passing power.
It's interesting, I purchased a rebuild kit for the carburetor, and all the
correct pieces are there. I suppose most AFB's are very similar, anyway
similar enough that a universal carb kit can be produced for almost all
models.

I'm still hoping some one has helpful answers to my other questions and
suggestions for me about all the tubes and openings that need to be dealt
with.

I left the questions attached to this message in case anyone else can help

Thanks,

Armand

> >
> > Questions
> >
> > 1. The primary butterfly's shaft has some play in it. Will this cause
> > problems?
> >
> > 2. There is a 1/4" od tube for the choke pulloff, should I connect that
to
> > the 3/8" od tube on the top of th ecarb passenger side?
> >
> > 3. There is a 3/8" od tube on the carb top passenger side that is for
> > thebowl vent, should I just leave that tube open to atmosphere or should
it
> > be filtered or ran somewhere to prevent crap from getting in the bowl.
> >
> > 4. There is a 3/8" od tube at the back and front of the carb, back one
is
> > threaded into place front is pressed in.
> > back one goes to PCV valve correct??
> > what is the front one for??
> > 5. There are two 1/4 inch od tubes on either side of the idle mixture
> > screws, one goes to the vacuum advance for the distributor, does it
matter
> > which one?
> > What does the other one do? get plugged off ?
> >
> > 6. Where should the power for the electrci choke come from?? I assume
I'll
> > have to add that in as 70 Javelins had automatic chokes instead of
electric.
> >
> > My plan is to put this on the white Javelin with a performer intake
under
> > it. I have the cam out of the 79 304, I've been thinking of putting it
in
> > the Javelin's original 1970 304 with new lifters. What are your thoughts
on
> > that idea?
> >
> > Thanks for for your help and opinions offered.
> >
> > Armand
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AMC-list mailing list
> > AMC-list at amc-list dot com
> > http://list.amc-list.com/listinfo.cgi/amc-list-amc-list.com
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG.
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>

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Armand,

Take a look at the instructions for an Edelbrock performer carb. I think
you'll find that they're almost identical. The Edelbrock is basically a
copy of the Carter AFB. This should answer several of your questions.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/misc/tech_center/install/1000/1403.pdf

Thanks,

Todd

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Todd,

Thanks for the information, that is exactly what I'm looking for.

Everybody,
An issue as come up with the AFB. With the accelerator pump linkage hooked
up, when it goes to full throttle the linkages bind and it gets a bit
sticky. (Dry carb) disconnect the accelerator pump and no bind, that really
sucks......
I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this and what solution there might
be? It appears to stick at the pump shaft in the bore at the top.

Thanks,

Armand

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Tomason"
To: "AMC, Rambler, Nash, Jeep and family"
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AMC-list] carburetor rebuild time

> Armand,
>
> Take a look at the instructions for an Edelbrock performer carb. I think
> you'll find that they're almost identical. The Edelbrock is basically a
> copy of the Carter AFB. This should answer several of your questions.
>
>
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/misc/tech_center/install/1000/1403.pdf
>
> Thanks,
>
> Todd
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-list mailing list
> AMC-list at amc-list dot com
> http://list.amc-list.com/listinfo.cgi/amc-list-amc-list.com
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/09
6:16 AM
>
>

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